Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106
04/27/2005 08:00 AM House RULES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB51 | |
| HB98 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| = | SB 51 | ||
| = | HB 98 | ||
SB 51-PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS 8:17:14 AM CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that the first order of business would be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 51(FIN), "An Act relating to contracts for the provision of state public assistance to certain recipients in the state; providing for regional public assistance plans and programs in the state; relating to grants for Alaska Native family assistance programs; relating to assignment of child support by Alaska Native family assistance recipients; relating to paternity determinations and genetic testing involving recipients of assistance under Alaska Native family assistance programs; and providing for an effective date." 8:17:23 AM SUE STANCLIFF, Staff to Representative Mike Kelly, Alaska State Legislature, explained that the amendment labeled 24-GS1089\G.1, Mischel, 4/19/05, would insert language that's a statutory reference rather than the language "tribal assistance program". She characterized this change as a matter of continuity in drafting. The amendment labeled GS1089\G.2, Mischel, 4/22/05, inserts new subsections defining "organization" and "Alaska Native organization" with statutory references. 8:19:11 AM REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS moved that the committee adopt Amendment 1, labeled 24-GS1089\G.1, Mischel, 4/19/05, which read: Page 3, line 17: Delete "a tribal assistance program in this state" Insert "an Alaska Native organization family assistance program under AS 47.27.070" CHAIR ROKEBERG objected for purposes of discussion. 8:19:25 AM REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS noted that he and Representative Coghill had the opportunity to meet with some of the Native leaders of Alaska. One of the issues discussed during the aforementioned meeting was the involvement of the tribes in the decision making [of the Native organizations]. He inquired as to the reasoning behind the changes embodied in Amendment 1. MS. STANCLIFF explained that the federal government has approved the tribal assistance program. The State of Alaska has to have a federally approved program to administer it, which is the purpose of AS 47.27.070. She informed the committee that originally [the tribal assistance program] was placed in statute as a pilot program, and [this legislation] will codify it due to its success. Therefore, [Amendment 1] merely refers to the organization that is approved by the federal government to administer this program. 8:21:00 AM REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS surmised then that the aforementioned issue wasn't brought up when the legislation went through the Senate. MS. STANCLIFF confirmed that to be the case. REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS related his understanding then that a tribal assistance program without a definition doesn't meet the federal criteria required to receive funds. MS. STANCLIFF disagreed and related the belief that the language in the legislation and the program meet the federal criteria. However, in order to have clarity and continuity with statute the desire is to replace the language with statutory language. A similar issue arose with the Department of Health and Social Services budget. The allocation for the Division of Public Assistance appropriation used the language "tribal assistance program", which wasn't defined in statute and thus the budget language was amended to be consistent with statute. 8:22:23 AM REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked if the current language of CSSB 51(FIN) is patterned after federal [law]. MS. STANCLIFF related her understanding that it isn't federal language, but was drafted by the Department of Law. 8:22:47 AM REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ highlighted that the organizations under AS 47.27.070 are essentially the regional nonprofits. He asked if there are any village nonprofits or other forms of tribal assistance programs. MS. STANCLIFF replied no, and added that [the federal law] is specific to the 13 [federally authorized tribal] organizations. REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ posed a situation in which the 13 regional nonprofits decided to create a new program to coordinate efforts, which he suggested wouldn't be part of this legislation under the proposed amendments. MS. STANCLIFF said that she didn't know, but pointed out that the legislation sets up a regional provision. 8:24:49 AM ELLIE FITZJARRALD, Chief, Policy & Program Development, Division of Public Assistance, Department of Health and Social Services, explained that the federal law - allows the 12 regional Native nonprofit organizations and Metlakatla Indian Association the option to run temporary assistance programs. The federal program refers to it as the tribal temporary assistance programs for needy families. Part of the requirement is that they must have a federally approved tribal temporary assistance program plan for needy families. The [federal] law includes a provision that requires that there be a comparable program in Alaska. Therefore, village nonprofits couldn't apply, operate, and receive federal funds directly, although they may be able to subcontract with an organization and provide services similar to the state. 8:27:15 AM STACIE KRALY, Senior Assistant Attorney General, Human Services Section, Civil Division (Juneau), Department of Law, agreed with Ms. Fitzjarrald. 8:27:27 AM REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if the language in CSSB 51(FIN), without the proposed amendments, gets the money to the programs. MS. FITZJARRALD replied yes. 8:28:11 AM CHAIR ROKEBERG inquired as to the department's opinion of the amendments. MS. KRALY said that the department doesn't object. The [Department of Law] is neutral with regard to the amendments because they don't change the legislation to a point that there would be concern with federal funding. CHAIR ROKEBERG expressed interest in doing what's correct in terms of the statute and in order to avoid any unintended consequences. He asked if Ms. Kraly had an opinion with regard to the drafting of the legislation. MS. KRALY concurred with Ms. Fitzjarrald that the language in CSSB 51(FIN) is sufficient. 8:29:47 AM CHAIR ROKEBERG said that it seems that there should be a correct answer in this case or perhaps either reference could be correct depending upon the context. MS. KRALY opined that both [references] could be correct. 8:30:22 AM REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said that he would agree with Amendment 1. However, he highlighted that Alaska has been struggling with regard to the legal definition of "tribe". He surmised that the sponsor merely wants to clarify that this refers to an Alaska Native organization family assistance program. Representative Coghill opined that this program works, provides much flexibility, and allows these organizations to do things that the state can't do under its program. 8:32:11 AM REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ related his belief that Amendment 1 brings up other tribal issues. He characterized Amendment 1 as an effort by those who aren't friendly to the notion of tribal sovereignty. He imagined that there will be a battle regarding whether [the language] is respectful enough for the existence of tribes. He said that's a battle he didn't want to have. 8:33:07 AM CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed out that Amendment 1 wants to replace the language "a tribal assistance program in this state" with the language "an Alaska Native organization family assistance program under AS 47.27.070". However, page 3, line 16, refers to "federal tribal family assistance plan". He asked if there is a [federal] plan that uses the aforementioned language. MS. FITZJARRALD nodded yes. She then explained that [the provision on page 3, line 16] sets out that in order to receive an Alaska Native family assistance program grant from the department, the organization must have received federal approval to operate a tribal assistance program in the state. The federal law refers to it as a tribal assistance program, which is what the federal government is approving. The federal program doesn't approve an Alaska Native family assistance program, which is what the department is responsible for doing "and this is one of the contingencies." In further response to Chair Rokeberg, Ms. Fitzjarrald specified that SB 51 reauthorizes and codifies the [Alaska Native family assistance program] in law. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL referred to page 11, line 13, of CSSB 51(FIN), which defines the [Alaska Native family assistance grant] as such. 8:36:20 AM CHAIR ROKEBERG indicated that the amendments seem appropriate. 8:36:35 AM REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS opined that it seems the "Alaska Native family assistance program" and the "tribal family assistance plan" both need federal approval. He asked if the language "federally approved tribal family assistance plan" on page 11, line 17, subparagraph (13), meets the federal plan. MS. KRALY replied yes. 8:39:26 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCGUIRE opined that Amendment 1 does make a good point in that if the desire is to codify a successful pilot program, then it should be made clear what program is to qualify. Without the specific definition, any tribal assistance program in the state could be operated in the state. The point of the legislation seems to confine this to the newly created Alaska Native organization family assistance program. 8:41:12 AM REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ addressed the policy call and said that when there is an effort to tie to existing organizations under AS 47.27.070, it precludes the flexibility from leaving the language open if the federal government might decide to accept other entities. As a technical matter, there is reference to "Alaska Native organization family assistance program". Although the aforementioned language exists in AS 47.27.070, it doesn't exist in the context of page 3, line 17. Therefore, it seems that two terms are being used, when the desire seems to be to use one term. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL agreed, and opined that it should be "family assistance program". REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said that he wasn't sure which it should be because the existing statute refers to "Native organization family assistance program". Hopefully, such inconsistencies don't cause a problem. In response to Chair Rokeberg, Representative Berkowitz clarified that he believes the reference to AS 47.27.070 in Amendment 1 is limiting. CHAIR ROKEBERG restated Representative Berkowitz's earlier question regarding whether any other organizations can qualify under this new statute if they are not an organization specified in AS 47.24.070. 8:43:44 AM MS. KRALY explained that the authorization to provide these services comes from a federal statute; the 13 organizations authorized to administer this program are set forth specifically in federal law and set forth in AS 47.24.070. Therefore, unless there is a change in the federal law authorizing this program, no other entity in the state could administer the program. If the federal government amends its statute, then the state would also have to amend its statute to mirror the authorization. 8:44:43 AM REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ related his understanding that under CSSB 51(FIN) [a new organization] would automatically be recognized and wouldn't require an amendment to AS 47.24.070. CHAIR ROKEBERG interjected that the aforementioned would be a strange construction because the statute reference would have to be replaced with U.S. code. 8:46:16 AM MS. FITZJARRALD, in response to Representative Berkowitz, clarified that under CSSB 51(FIN) and current law an amendment would be required if the federal government changed its law such that other Native organizations could run tribal family assistance programs. In further response to Representative Berkowitz, Ms. Fitzjarrald confirmed that Amendment 1 has no impact on the flexibility of the program. 8:47:50 AM CHAIR ROKEBERG withdrew his objection. REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected. 8:48:01 AM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives McGuire, Harris, Coghill, and Rokeberg voted in favor of Amendment 1. Representatives Berkowitz, Kerttula, and Kohring voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 1 was adopted by a vote of 4-3. 8:48:39 AM REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL moved that the committee adopt Amendment 2, labeled 24-GS1089\G.2, Mischel, 4/22/05, which read: Page 9, following line 21: Insert a new subsection to read: "(q) In this section, "organization" means an organization identified in AS 47.27.070(a)." Page 11, following line 11: Insert a new subsection to read: "(g) In this section, "Alaska Native organization" or "organization" means an organization identified in AS 47.27.070(a)." REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected. He, again, highlighted the difference in terminology. 8:49:17 AM REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL referred to the language on page 3, line 13, which he believes provides enough consistency. 8:49:43 AM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Harris, Coghill, Kohring, McGuire, and Rokeberg voted in favor of Amendment 2. Representatives Berkowitz and Kerttula voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 2 was adopted by a vote of 5-2. 8:50:05 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCGUIRE moved to report CSSB 51(FIN), as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, HCS CSSB 51(RLS) was reported from the House Rules Standing Committee.
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